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Can you clue me up?

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ShadowSphere9

Lol never mind we done here.

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mac
6 hours ago, ShadowSphere9 said:

Lol never mind we done here.

correct

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Crystal Wolf
On 9/1/2019 at 7:07 AM, mac said:

correct

I wonder if you will ever find a satisfactory answer mac?

I started off learning all the cards by rote, ask me now any card lol and I can spout out the traditional meaning. But I also found later that learning the cards in a different way throught the Journey of the 22 Major Arcana gave me a different insight.  I find tarot to be intriguing.

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mac
14 minutes ago, Crystal Wolf said:

I wonder if you will ever find a satisfactory answer mac?

I started off learning all the cards by rote, ask me now any card lol and I can spout out the traditional meaning. But I also found later that learning the cards in a different way throught the Journey of the 22 Major Arcana gave me a different insight.  I find tarot to be intriguing.

 

I'm not optimistic, Crystal.  :o  

 

I've probably given up expecting one but when someone 'pings' an old topic as happened here,  I will usually take the opportunity to ask again the simple questions I've asked before.   (I do similar for other unresolved topics.)

 

 

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Crystal Wolf

Ping! lol, and your replies are much awaited!

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mac

The software time-out has forced me into making a separate posting rather then being able to add to my earlier piece.

 

I'm not optimistic, Crystal.  :o  

 

I've probably given up expecting one but when someone 'pings' an old topic as happened here,  I will usually take the opportunity to ask again the simple questions I've asked before.   (I do similar for other unresolved topics.)

 

I try my best to keep my questions as simple and direct as I can but almost invariably they aren't addressed that way.  This will sound awful but it seems that most practitioners either don't know or can't explain what they're doing.  But let me back-track a step to add that something similar can be the case when I've asked (as often I have) a claimed practitioner about their psychic or mediumistic attributes ie what they do and what they see as a successful outcome.

 

Times many an individual has tried to explain to me (!) what different kinds of mediumship are rather than what form of mediumship she uses herself and how she ensures she doesn't drift unknowingly into a psychic reading. (for example)  Often individuals have waffled on that they don't like being labelled or put in a box but in my view what is being said is thatreally they flit around without properly understanding what they're doing and the potential mistakes they may be making.

 

I'm not accusing anyone of doing anything similar but it really does make me wonder sometimes who's doing what.

 

Edited by mac

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mac

I don't know what happened but on attempting to add further thoughts and trying to update my posting I received an error message saying too much time had elapsed from the initial posting. 

 

I'd been doing bits and bobs at home between typing but I don't think I took THAT long - and I am a slow old fart and allowance needs to be made!!  :lol:

 

The earlier posting was at that time still showing on my computer screen, something I've not previously experienced on websites - spooky!!  :lol:  Now it's gone and just the one I managed to copy and paste remains.....:o

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Crystal Wolf

doo doo doo do, well maybe it has been prorogued and taken over my militant forum software that were trying to stop you posting?  I know some of the recent forum updagtes meant that the time out thing got changed, as the ip revolves on some servers too, but honestly my psychic powers are evading me right now and tell me that I need to eat some cookies and hide beneath a mountain of tarot decks! :oldfogey:

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mac

When my psychic powers go off the boil I turn to alcohol!  :lol:  I do something similar when the political news gets frustrating and/or annoying so truly sober time right now in my miserable life is somewhat limited.  :lol:

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Anne K

Taureans can absolutely make the grade. I, being a Taurean, have worked with Tarot and Oracle decks for years. I did find that once I stop trying to understand all the aspects and allow the cards and the process of laying them out and reading them to unfold naturally, I got way more out of it.  Tarot is not as much an analytical process but rather an intuitive one.  It takes time and effort. If you rely on your instincts you will find your own way that works for you.

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mac
On 9/6/2019 at 7:57 PM, Anne K said:

Taureans can absolutely make the grade. I, being a Taurean, have worked with Tarot and Oracle decks for years. I did find that once I stop trying to understand all the aspects and allow the cards and the process of laying them out and reading them to unfold naturally, I got way more out of it.  Tarot is not as much an analytical process but rather an intuitive one.  It takes time and effort. If you rely on your instincts you will find your own way that works for you.

I was self-mocking asking about Taureans, just a little joke at my own expense.  I'm a Taurean but one without any sensitivity/awareness anyway and perhaps not typical.

 

instincts?  Is that similar to  intuition?  Or feelings about something?  Aren't they psychic attributes?  Where do the cards fit into any such picture? 

 

I'm not challenging what practitioners do but asking about what they draw from what they do.  And why.  :)

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Legna

I've always struggled with tarot because I leaned towards intuitive reading rather than really knowing what each card represented.After doing tarot exercises on the forum and having a better understanding of them which has helped enormously( thanks to Crystal! :)) I have come to the conclusion that ,although each tarot card has its own interpretation,actually, intuition still plays a big part  because ,I believe, our own intuition/higher self, (possibly through the connection made, is a joint effort between ,both, the inquirer and the reader) whatever you prefer to call it, chooses the tarot cards which gives the inquirer an insight on a situation if they continue on their present path. 

I suppose readers might do what they do is a similar reason as  counselors,for example. Well the genuine ones anyway. Those who are a little more aware and sensitive want to help to give others a little insight and to help them understand themselves better. It must be rewarding and bring some degree of satisfaction.

 

I disagree with you mac, I think that we are all sensitive and have awareness to some degree. We use it more than you think  in our day to day life but often do not realise.:)

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mac
16 minutes ago, Legna said:

I've always struggled with tarot because I leaned towards intuitive reading rather than really knowing what each card represented.After doing tarot exercises on the forum and having a better understanding of them which has helped enormously( thanks to Crystal! :)) I have come to the conclusion that ,although each tarot card has its own interpretation,actually, intuition still plays a big part  because ,I believe, our own intuition/higher self, (possibly through the connection made, is a joint effort between ,both, the inquirer and the reader) whatever you prefer to call it, chooses the tarot cards which gives the inquirer an insight on a situation if they continue on their present path. 

I suppose readers might do what they do is a similar reason as  counselors,for example. Well the genuine ones anyway. Those who are a little more aware and sensitive want to help to give others a little insight and to help them understand themselves better. It must be rewarding and bring some degree of satisfaction.

 

I disagree with you mac, I think that we are all sensitive and have awareness to some degree. We use it more than you think  in our day to day life but often do not realise.:)

 

Re your final point, with no means to assess any level of personal sensitivity I may have I always err on the side of caution rather than assuming something I do not significantly have.  We may indeed all be sensitive but to such a small degree in some matters that any such level of sensitivity is negligible.  But I digress......

 

In your response, Legna, you use certain words - "interpretation", "intuition", "counselor", "aware" and "sensitive".  These are words I've either used myself or are similar to them.  I'd love for someone to define more closely what happens in Tarot but - please forgive my bluntness - it's rare that anyone does or perhaps can.  Well that's how it seems to me. 

 

All too often I hear woolly descriptions that simply don't enlighten the seeker of understanding and I simply will not accept that Tarot itself can not be explained clearly - that would be an attempted cop out.  I would, however, accept that practitioners simply don't feel moved to try but that could be a personal choice for anyone to take whatever their field of expertise or simply interest.

 

 

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Legna
50 minutes ago, mac said:

 

Re your final point, with no means to assess any level of personal sensitivity I may have I always err on the side of caution rather than assuming something I do not significantly have.  We may indeed all be sensitive but to such a small degree in some matters that any such level of sensitivity is negligible.  But I digress......

 

In your response, Legna, you use certain words - "interpretation", "intuition", "counselor", "aware" and "sensitive".  These are words I've either used myself or are similar to them.  I'd love for someone to define more closely what happens in Tarot but - please forgive my bluntness - it's rare that anyone does or perhaps can.  Well that's how it seems to me. 

 

All too often I hear woolly descriptions that simply don't enlighten the seeker of understanding and I simply will not accept that Tarot itself can not be explained clearly - that would be an attempted cop out.  I would, however, accept that practitioners simply don't feel moved to try but that could be a personal choice for anyone to take whatever their field of expertise or simply interest.

 

 

Mmm :thinking-023: my belief is that being sensitive and aware is only a minute percentage of what we  are capable of and  I doubt very much wether we fully understand as much as we believe we do, therefore, as much as a "cop out" it seems,I doubt if anyone can give a satisfactory explanation.  Having said that, after some more thought, a better explanation of tarot is that, tarot works by reflecting  our own  thoughts, and I don't even know if that makes sense(probably not) never mind  enlightening anyone, but it makes sense to me.:lol:  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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mac
2 hours ago, Legna said:

Mmm :thinking-023: my belief is that being sensitive and aware is only a minute percentage of what we  are capable of and  I doubt very much wether we fully understand as much as we believe we do, therefore, as much as a "cop out" it seems,I doubt if anyone can give a satisfactory explanation.  Having said that, after some more thought, a better explanation of tarot is that, tarot works by reflecting  our own  thoughts, and I don't even know if that makes sense(probably not) never mind  enlightening anyone, but it makes sense to me.:lol:  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sensitive and aware are indeed parts of our nature but if we don't understand the rest of it how can we declare those two aspects constitute only a minute percentage?  They may actually constitute a major percentage where Tarot is concerned but if no-one knows that then how much does anyone know about the subject in totality?

 

My take is always that practitioners should be able to explain their specialty.  When they can't then caution is my watchword and that applies in other fields too.  I can accept something that is demonstrably predictable and reliable even if it's not fully understood but where claims are unsupported, where belief and ideas reign, I am not persuaded.

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Crystal Wolf
39 minutes ago, mac said:

Sensitive and aware are indeed parts of our nature but if we don't understand the rest of it how can we declare those two aspects constitute only a minute percentage?  They may actually constitute a major percentage where Tarot is concerned but if no-one knows that then how much does anyone know about the subject in totality?

 

My take is always that practitioners should be able to explain their specialty.  When they can't then caution is my watchword and that applies in other fields too.  I can accept something that is demonstrably predictable and reliable even if it's not fully understood but where claims are unsupported, where belief and ideas reign, I am not persuaded.

OK, let's go back to the beginning . . .  What was the question?

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Crystal Wolf
5 hours ago, Legna said:

I've always struggled with tarot because I leaned towards intuitive reading rather than really knowing what each card represented.After doing tarot exercises on the forum and having a better understanding of them which has helped enormously( thanks to Crystal! :)) I have come to the conclusion that ,although each tarot card has its own interpretation,actually, intuition still plays a big part  because ,I believe, our own intuition/higher self, (possibly through the connection made, is a joint effort between ,both, the inquirer and the reader) whatever you prefer to call it, chooses the tarot cards which gives the inquirer an insight on a situation if they continue on their present path. 

I suppose readers might do what they do is a similar reason as  counselors,for example. Well the genuine ones anyway. Those who are a little more aware and sensitive want to help to give others a little insight and to help them understand themselves better. It must be rewarding and bring some degree of satisfaction.

 

I disagree with you mac, I think that we are all sensitive and have awareness to some degree. We use it more than you think  in our day to day life but often do not realise.:)

Awww thanks, those were fun days weren't they! Now everybody seems to be an expert <sighs> and read intuitively.

I firmly believe there are two ways of the Tarot, or maybe 22 lol?  

1) The creator carefully crafted each card to evoke a specific meaning and this has been adhered to in most modern packs. The journey of the magical and sacred 22 steps of arcana that improves sensitivity and increasws intuitive awareness until the trainee suddenly yelle 'Eureka!' I understand!

2) Someone picks up a deck of tarot and starts spouting 'what they feel' and 'what pops into their head'. They could be 'reading' a cereal box or  pages from Ikea Instructions!

 

<~~~~ Tarot Snob Number One!

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mac
2 hours ago, Crystal Wolf said:

OK, let's go back to the beginning . . .  What was the question?

There was a couple of them. 

quote:

"For Tarot practitioners particularly, what is your own response to what I've written below, please?

 

I think I'm moderately knowledgeable about life, death and afterlife issues and how they relate to the spiritual/psychic scene. Is Tarot linked to any of them and if so, how? What can be expected from Tarot and how might it be used?"

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Legna
13 hours ago, mac said:

There was a couple of them. 

quote:

"For Tarot practitioners particularly, what is your own response to what I've written below, please?

 

I think I'm moderately knowledgeable about life, death and afterlife issues and how they relate to the spiritual/psychic scene. Is Tarot linked to any of them and if so, how? What can be expected from Tarot and how might it be used?"

Everything in the Universe is linked so I would say ,yes, the Tarot is linked to all. Everything is energy even the chair you sit on, for example. If I remember rightly, their is some scientific evidence for this. Wether atoms or molecules, I'm no scientist but ,what I do know is that if we are all sharing the same space, trees, animals, inanimate objects included, we are all linked. Trees take in carbon monoxide that we breathe out and expell oxygen which we then breathe in so, are we not then a part of the tree?  The chair you sit on is made from the tree, the paper that makes the Tarot cards comes from the tree, so are they not all connected? 

We all die and our remains are food for the earth and trees ect. The whole life, death and after life cycle is one, all connected. 

 

 Tarot brings to attention areas or situations in ones life and encourages them to decide  for themselves if ,and what ,action needs to be taken. So I suppose that is all that should be expected and that is the purpose for its use, how it should be used. At least that is my take on it. 

 

I do agree with you about caution mac. We should always be cautious and question everything! 

 

 

 

 

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Legna
16 hours ago, Crystal Wolf said:

Awww thanks, those were fun days weren't they! Now everybody seems to be an expert <sighs> and read intuitively.

I firmly believe there are two ways of the Tarot, or maybe 22 lol?  

1) The creator carefully crafted each card to evoke a specific meaning and this has been adhered to in most modern packs. The journey of the magical and sacred 22 steps of arcana that improves sensitivity and increasws intuitive awareness until the trainee suddenly yelle 'Eureka!' I understand!

2) Someone picks up a deck of tarot and starts spouting 'what they feel' and 'what pops into their head'. They could be 'reading' a cereal box or  pages from Ikea Instructions!

 

<~~~~ Tarot Snob Number One!

Haha. We all know you love Tarot crystal.xD

 

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mac
1 hour ago, Legna said:

Everything in the Universe is linked so I would say ,yes, the Tarot is linked to all. Everything is energy even the chair you sit on, for example. If I remember rightly, their is some scientific evidence for this. Wether atoms or molecules, I'm no scientist but ,what I do know is that if we are all sharing the same space, trees, animals, inanimate objects included, we are all linked. Trees take in carbon monoxide that we breathe out and expell oxygen which we then breathe in so, are we not then a part of the tree?  The chair you sit on is made from the tree, the paper that makes the Tarot cards comes from the tree, so are they not all connected? 

We all die and our remains are food for the earth and trees ect. The whole life, death and after life cycle is one, all connected. 

 

 Tarot brings to attention areas or situations in ones life and encourages them to decide  for themselves if ,and what ,action needs to be taken. So I suppose that is all that should be expected and that is the purpose for its use, how it should be used. At least that is my take on it. 

 

I do agree with you about caution mac. We should always be cautious and question everything! 

 

 

 

 

 

One could extrapolate the linkage argument to include just about everything, everywhere but I was more meaning the practical aspects, aspects we encounter in our ordinary day-to-day lives.  If Tarot does what you're suggesting then it's little more than an individual sitting with a deck and encouraging their sitter/listener/client to think for themselves and take their own decisions - isn't it? 

 

I could do (and have done) something similar by listening to, empathising with, questioning and finally counselling my sitter.    

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Legna
2 minutes ago, mac said:

 

One could extrapolate the linkage argument to include just about everything, everywhere but I was more meaning the practical aspects, aspects we encounter in our ordinary day-to-day lives.  If Tarot does what you're suggesting then it's little more than an individual sitting with a deck and encouraging their sitter/listener/client to think for themselves and take their own decisions - isn't it? 

 

I could do (and have done) something similar by listening to, empathising with, questioning and finally counselling my sitter.    

I'm not sure if others agree with my opinion but that is how I see it exactly ,or  at least, what I personally expect from Tarot and how it should be used. Having said that ,though, there are still aspects of Tarot that will always be unexplainable and, like I said ,there is no satisfactory explanation that will suffice. 

 

By the way, putting the cat among the pigeons lol, some may suggest that counsellors unintentionally use some degree of intuition. Intuitively knowing the right words to use with individuals or reading between the lines.

I think there is a fine line between psychology and intuition. Just saying :lol:

 

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mac
17 minutes ago, Legna said:

I'm not sure if others agree with my opinion but that is how I see it exactly ,or  at least, what I personally expect from Tarot and how it should be used. Having said that ,though, there are still aspects of Tarot that will always be unexplainable and, like I said ,there is no satisfactory explanation that will suffice.

 

Well we finally got there....  :)  It really shouldn't matter whether others agree with you because it's how YOU view things and do things.  And it begins to answer some of the questions I'd been asking.

 

 

 

20 minutes ago, Legna said:

By the way, putting the cat among the pigeons lol, some may suggest that counsellors unintentionally use some degree of intuition. Intuitively knowing the right words to use with individuals or reading between the lines.

I think there is a fine line between psychology and intuition. Just saying :lol:

The word couselling covers a multitude of sins.  It may involve academically trained, professionally qualified practitioners right through to unqualified, untrained but empathetic, sensitive, caring individuals perhaps using intuition and/or psychic reading of the seeker - and the first group may also use attributes similar to those used by the second group! 

 

Whether Tarot fits into that picture is - in my view - best answered by those who use Tarot.

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